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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reading about the benefits of Amino Acids, I was looking at the Amino Acid lists on a bunch of the really, really expensive AA additives (Elos, Fauna Marin, KZ, etc.) and they are just your basic amino acids...

I found these gel-caps that contain basically all of the exact same amino acids, except only $28 for 200 gel caps: PROLAB Amino Gel-Caps Supplements : Building Lean Muscle Mass (they are missing a few aa's, but all the major ones are there)

Let me know what you think of this? I can't see paying $60 - $100+ dollars for amino acids that are no different than what are used by fitness people - they are certainly food-grade or better and they are gel-caps so it is really easy to extract. Even better - they list exactly how many milligrams of each amino-acid are in each gel-cap, something NONE of the aquarium products do.

I would imagine 100 gel-caps would last for at least a year, and as a benefit, I could take them too if I wanted!

Once I get my tank set up at my new place this weekend (Ordered my Radion Pros and my BM Dosing Pump today!!!) I might experiment with this. Worst case scenario I end up working out more so I have an excuse to dump them down the hatch.
 

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I have taken these and even some cheaper ones I got from discountanabolics.com. They are a great supplement to add, with maybe some multi vitamins, that you don't really have to worry about any adverse effects like some of these poisons they sell to people with the promise of building muscle.

As far as dosing them. No clue but I'd like to tag along for this. Might not last a year because of expiration but sounds like a cool option.

(Couldn't stop thinking about this pic..haha)
 

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Subscribed:D

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
Does anyone know of any potential problems this could cause? I know the preservatives could possibly contain phosphates, but that is no biggie since it is such a small amount and my N and P are at 0.

If you are a Health Supplement kind of person - let me know if you know of anything that goes into these type of pills that isn't on the label and could possibly hurt the aquarium?

I will grab some at GNC next time I am at Southpoint or if they don't have them I will order some online. If you can find me a link to an even more diverse Amino Acid supplement - feel free to send me a link.

If this works out, everyone here will have super affordable Amino Acids! I just found a better link for only $14 dollars for 200. I have a little more research to do on dose levels, but it looks like if I dilute each pill to a level comparable to KZ, I will have around 5 days per pill (@ 7 cents each) - That is around 1.5 cents per day in my tank - hopefully a 10th the price of the competition.

For comparison, in a 50g tank, the 50ml bottle of KZ Amino Acids is $44. 20 drops per ml means we have 1000 drops, with a dose being 2-4 drops per day. Let's call it 3 drops per dose for 375 doses per jar at 11 cents a day.

Here is a list of the ingredients besides what is listed on the label and are probably mostly in the gelcap itself which will be discarded - let me know if any of these are dangerous:
Vegetable Oil, Gelatin, Hydrogenated Vegetable Oil (Palm), Soy Lecithin, Yellow Beeswax, Glycerin, Water, Silica, Natural Vitamin E, Titanium Dioxide (This is just a coloring agent, presumably in the gelcap, to color it gold, E171)

Edit: This looks like an even more promising product: http://www.drugstore.com/products/prod.asp?pid=415473&catid=181808 and is only $20 for 360 capsules and contains every single Amino Acid that KZ does and then some!
 

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We use ms. wages for alk and cal. Some dose vit. C. I'm sure redfish can elaborate on that. That's all not designed for reef tanks . Bakingsoda, vinegar, vodka.... I'm sure its possible to amino acid dose via muscle pills. I need to dose bad.

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No research to back this.....but I'm 99.9% sure there is a benefit.

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No research to back this.....but I'm 99.9% sure there is a benefit.

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why 99.9% sure? Why not just say 100%? I'm not saying they don't work. But are these AA's even found in the body of the coral's or the coral skeleton? I'm just wondering what the AA supplements provide that isn't in the fish food we feed daily. My guess is they are already there.
 

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why 99.9% sure? Why not just say 100%? I'm not saying they don't work. But are these AA's even found in the body of the coral's or the coral skeleton? I'm just wondering what the AA supplements provide that isn't in the fish food we feed daily. My guess is they are already there.
Here is a quick read to answer your first question. It describes the basic function of zooxanthellae in coral: NOAA National Ocean Service Education: Corals
 

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Here is a quick read to answer your first question. It describes the basic function of zooxanthellae in coral: NOAA National Ocean Service Education: Corals
I don't mean, "how do we know they need amino acids". I can promise you 100% that all corals require AA's to live. I mean, how do we know it's those specific AA's listed on the box? There are over 500 known AA's charted so far.
Humans require 10 AA's to survive and we can utilize 20 total AA's (the other 10 are broken down into sub particles that act as enzymes to speed production of proteins etc in the body; but aren't essential).
The metabolic processes of corals aren't even remotely like humans I'm guessing. For example, most of the AA's that humans need (and are listed on the box presented) are for our nervous system.
Anyways, you get my point. Once again, I'm not trying to shoot down the fact that AA's may or may not help our corals. In fact, I'm currently dosing Red Sea reef energy A and B (that has AA's in it).
I'm just bringing up some discussion points regarding adding extra stuff to our tanks. Once again, I'm willing to bet all the needed AA's are in the food we feed the fish. :)
 

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why 99.9% sure? Why not just say 100%?

I don't know its just that margarine of error. That's what fascinates me about this (science) is the unknown. However I can say that in my experiences, that I am currently getting less SPS growth, than I was when I was dosing coral accel daily . I can't say that coral accel had the AM I was lacking but its raised some flags and that's what made me subscribe to this post. I have had AM in the back of my mind for a few months, with my slack water changes I bet its needed.


So I guess I need to get my Google out and........well getting the time to study is the hard part..... Holly crap I should be in bed!
 

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I do know that when I feel sick, I up My vit C and zinc and some how I feel better. MY acros are not sick but a little AM seems essential.


Maybe "mega man" will boost my coral growth......look out Randy!!! You thought Ms. wages was a discovery? HHHA
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 · (Edited)
All life basically revolves around 20 amino acids - the simplest, most basic of the amino acids. Amino acids are used directly by cells and comprise all proteins and their intermediaries - without amino acids cells simply can't survive. All coral tissue is made up of cells (even though they are far different than human cells!) and it is cells that create the calcium carbonate skeleton and cells that produce pigments to shield the zooxanthelle - which are also made up of cells that use AAs. It is a 100% sure fact that our corals all utilize Amino Acids - the question is whether they want for it in our systems. I don't know of any consumer tests that can get levels for Amino Acids in water - so any testing is going to be subjective and there is no control since there are thousands of other factors that effect health and growth.

In ULN systems, it isn't just N and P that are kept low. Other good nutrients like proteins and amino acids (vitamins) are kept low as well - so a lot of people have taken to dosing them since they provide additional nutrients without raising N or P.

I currently have 0 N and 0 P in my tank (at least undetectable on any test I've used) and I would imagine with the scarce amount of food I feed, I have much less protein and amino acids in my tank than someone who has a softie tank with a high bioload of fish.

I would imagine they aren't going to help me out too much since I have fish and I actively feed the tank. However, someone who doesn't feed their tank at all and doesn't have fish that keeps a ULN system - these could be vital.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Here is what Dr. Randy Holmes-Farley has to say about it:
FWIW, it is not clear, as far as I know, which "dietary" amino acids are truly required by corals (if any), and which they can synthesize perfectly well themselves, although there is some suggestion that certain ones can be growth limiting (like aspartic acid). Whether dosing them into the water is useful, however, may depend on what particulates they may be consuming.
 
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