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I would!!! If its cloned its supposed to have exact matching DNA and stuff so why not!!

Now granted, I don't like milk that much...

OOOOOOOO.....unless you put chocolate in it.....that is the way to torros heart, chocolate milk!!!! :)
 

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First, if it were straight up cloned, copy of the original, sure! I have no problem with the idea of cloning and I think it may well replace AI in the beef cattle market.

HOWEVER this genetically altered, hormone/ steroid/ antibiotic treated milk and meat we are getting right now is B. A. D. !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hormones and steroids are causing girls to develop faster, boys to develop "less" and our immune systems to go out of whack. Particularly the hormones though. They are adding them to try to increase bulk while decreasing time to market. What they don't seem to care about is that reducing the beefs "time to market" is also having the same effect on children. I'm sorry but a 10 year old girl shouldn't have to deal with having her period or boobs. That's just traumatic to a child.

In short I'd be far more less opposed to eating a cloned cow than a hormone treated one.


As for Dolly... Wasn't there a LOT of controversy about the methods used there? Wasn't there a lot of question as to whether they used the right kind of cell? If they couldn't prove for certain that that portion of their method was correct and documented I wouldn't base too much on the outcome. Lets hold off and see what happens as more animals are cloned. Let's wait and see if they all age prematurely. Because honestly, IMHO, if the "offspring" is not 100% identical (in health, DNA, and aging) it's not a true clone. Something went wrong.
 

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ElTorro4Ever said:
I would!!! If its cloned its supposed to have exact matching DNA and stuff so why not!!
There are no less than 7 different ways to clone in theory. There are 3 that have been explored in depth and 2 that have been successful (If I'm missing one, let me know)

There are generally 4 steps in the cloning process (the ones that have been successful) Some scientists say they've cloned some cows and had a high success rate by a different method, but refuse to reveal what it was because they want to patent it.

*A vector basically acts as a neutral holster for the genetic material. The original dna is broken down (fragmentation), it is reassembled in the vector and reconstructed (ligation and transfection) and then the viable cells are harvested and allowed to mature.

This does not often result in identical DNA (if ever)

basically, other than somatic cloning this is the process. There are pitfalls everywhere, and it always leads to a shortened lifespan.


Somatic cloning is in it's infancy, but just as identical twins are the same on the surface, their DNA is not exact matching. There is always going to be a varience in transcription. This is why we have genetic mutations. Cancer. Downs Syndrome etc. Something, environment or other factor causes it. The writing of the dna sequence by man or nature is not, and cannot be exact.

I agree with lobster, we don't inherit traits from the burger we ate for lunch (thank goodness!!!) BUT there are aspects of the food we eat that do impact our health. I don't know much about it, but it does concern me, and I'd just as soon avoid it. Chances are though, the apple I ate for lunch without washing it first is going to do me in before my burger will :)
 

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Spinach will kill you first.

I feel the change in youth growth and devopment is like any ecolocical property and is NOT affected or "forced" by a single source. Sure its easy to point fingers at anti-biotics or steroids, but these things are done supposedly to "improve" the quantity and quality of food we recieve. Which is lazy BS, a penned and injected cow IMO is less hardy/healthy of an organism. Just like the desk jocekys that shoot up roids and go to the gym for an hour each day, are they as healthy as someone that eats a balanced diet and runs every day? Heck no.

What about improvements in modern medecine? Our ability to treat and ID fatal or disabling disease increases daily, yet the array of problems affecting mankind seems to increase just as quickly. When you can't take cookies to an elementary school because half the kids have a gluten allergy, theres a problem.

And I believe it lies in us. We have bent the world to suit our needs and as it changes we are losing our ability to adapt and survive. Warning labels, innoculations, roided/antibiotic food, and an increasingly sedentary lifestyle are going to send us the way of the dinosaurs, pending we don't blow ourselves up.

Disease allergy and mutation are a part of every organisms internal population control mechanism. So it can be deduced that although a cloned organism isn't an exact carbon copy it isn't necessaryily worse for you.

And BBG are all mutations bad?
 

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JoeCreature said:
Spinach will kill you first.

And BBG are all mutations bad?
LOL I'm with ya on the spinach, like the apples, I'm going to keep on eating them LOL

Are all mutations bad? Hecks no! I don't think so anyway (for what that's worth lol). But I think it's folly (no offense intended) to think that cloned organisms are identical to the original. It just ain't so. Can't be. And just like the media portrays every thing in their own conservative:liberal:quick study ways, I think it's important that people think about issues that affect them critically.

Most of what goes on in the agri - food industry is to make money. Plain and simple. There's not a thing wrong with that either. That's how you stay in business or keep the family farm, whichever you will. I thought the time to market thought for kids and animals was very well said :)

The mutation is important though when considering the food source. Is it a color mutation, length of life, or actual protein difference (that's what I care about)?

Does the telomere matter? I don't know.... But I do take issue with the agri approach that cloned = bred. And I find it scary that so many intelligent, educated people are willing to believe it.
 

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Pretty soon we are going to be like the gray aliens and not be able to breed. Then we too will have to travel to other worlds, mutilate cattle, and abduct hippies in order to survive. That's unless the reptilians invade earth first and eat us all. Maybe they won't like us since we eat foods with hormones and stuff though.
 

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So where can I get some of this wholesome delicous cloned milk? Do they make it in lactose free yet? How about chocolate lactose free?
 

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brandonberry said:
Pretty soon we are going to be like the gray aliens and not be able to breed. Then we too will have to travel to other worlds, mutilate cattle, and abduct hippies in order to survive. That's unless the reptilians invade earth first and eat us all. Maybe they won't like us since we eat foods with hormones and stuff though.
Um......wow.....mr. berry.............lol...........creative much? lol
 

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Ever eaten a Slim-Jim?
 

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We already eat genetically modified fruits/vegetables why not eat cloned meat? With that being said I really haven't read into cloned animals, so for those of you that would not, why? What are the potential harmful side effects? Would I get cancer? If so, what will cause that cancer? Will I all of a sudden get an extra arm because I'm eating cloned meat/ drinking milk from a cloned cow?

As for the steroids/hormones (I think I read somewhere) that cows are already injected with them to increase milk production......

I have no problem with it.......

Also, jellybean,
I think there are a other factors that are leading to earlier puberty as well. One is childhood obesity (there are studies showing this). It throws a child's system out of whack. Some do believe that is chemicals, I'm not denying this is the cause, but there is no cold hard evidence to support this.....there is lots of hypotheses.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2001-02-12-early-puberty.htm
 

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First... I am in no way, shape or form educated on this topic or anything related to serious science. (I do watch the Science Channel a lot though...lol)

I do want to make a simple observation though. Doesn't it take hundreds, if not thousands of year for an animal to change and adapt to it's surroundings? (Evolution) And doesn't there have to be some factor involved that would encourage these changes like increases/decreases in temperature, etc.? The point I'm making is yes, we as a species were shorter a couple hundred years ago and we weighed less. Our lifespan was much shorter too. (one of the reasons people got married at a young age) I attribute this increase in lifespan and height to better quality and a more abundant supply of foods. (and better healthcare) Not to mention the diversity of foods available now that were not 65 years ago. (My parents would have never seen a Kiwi when they were kids. Didn't grow in upstate NY and they didn't have the means to refrigerate things the way we do now)

Anyways... I am questioning the sudden growth of kids today. My kids are only 9 and 10 but there are other kids in the neighborhood that are hitting puberty at a young age and they are not overweight, very active kids actually) I don't want to come across like some weird guy but no one can deny that these young girls look much older at 14 and 15 than they did when I was that age. They are much more developed than the girls were when I was 13-15. The boys are much taller and they have these huge feet too. I will write off some of it to the quality of food or obesity to the couch potato (Xbox) and the high sugar snacks but there has got to be something more in the food that is contributing to these major changes in a short period of time.

It may or may not be bad for the kids to be taller or develop faster but it does not seem at all like evolution given the time span it's happening in. Is it radiated fruit or antibiotics/steroids in the meats? Dunno- but there are major changes happening and I don't think HD TVs, cell phones or MP3 players are making kids taller.
 

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FF....people change...

evolution of people. The original **** sapiens were what 3 feet tall. People have been gradually getting taller with time...but think about how many of you are taller then your parents...grandparents...great grandparents. It may be something in the food but I think its more to it then that.

How about the children (13 years old) in third world countries that are getting pregnant. Do they have access to our horrible steroid/pesticide filled foods? I would wager money that they don't. So how else can we explain that?

I'm just helping to drive the discussion. My honest opinion that it is a combination of all of the factors that have been discussed. Its just my research background that likes to see hard evidence to support it.

Someone needs to now start a global warming thread..we've covered just about all of the other controversial issues...
 

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I do agree that we change but it's over a few generations, not such drastic changes within one generation.

Don't make me explain how the 13 year old gets pregnant in a 3rd world country... lol

And as for Global Warming... I think Al Gore is full of $hit. (Don't really mean that but I just felt like being contrary to popular opinion)
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
They put steroids and growth hormones in cattle so they grow bigger to feed a larger population. Same goes for dairy cows. We eat these animals so this stuff goes directly in our body. Why do you think people drink organic milk and eat free ranging cows?

I have two special needs kids. We have them eating mostly organic and or natural food. Since we switched them over they have shown significant improvements physically and emotionally. I'm not staying everyone should eat this way, but I think this is how food was meant to be consumed. I also think these chemicals were not meant for humans or animals for that matter!
 

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Foxface210 said:
Don't make me explain how the 13 year old gets pregnant in a 3rd world country... lol
this could get X-rated.

I really just have a hard time believing that its just chemicals in the food we eat. I really do believe that its a combination of all the factors. I am in no way denying the steroids/hormones/pesticides are having an influence on us, but there is more to it then that.

I'm going to make a comment next and I'm not doing it to offend anyone. its along the same line as the previous few comments. This whole topic is making me think of Jenny McCarthy's argument that vaccinations are causing autism. Would you rather have your kid getting polio or autism?
 

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kjhart04 said:
I'm going to make a comment next and I'm not doing it to offend anyone. its along the same line as the previous few comments. This whole topic is making me think of Jenny McCarthy's argument that vaccinations are causing autism. Would you rather have your kid getting polio or autism?
True... I do agree that I'd rather avoid polio and run the slight risk of autism. I also agree that we should not ignore change and embrace some major advancement in science but... Injecting cattle or chickens to grow bigger is not really to my benefit. It is more about increasing profits for others. If it was proven that bigger cattle or chickens were better for me than I'd be for it. As it is, there is no benefit to my health (maybe my bank account) if I eat them.

And I should clarify that I am no where near a 'tree hugger' in my personal views/lifestyle. I will say that for taste reasons alone; free range chicken, beef or pork tastes the best. The big ol' fat chicken breasts you can get at the store taste like cardboard with a little salt added in. The free range chicken actually has some flavor to it.

And to really put this back on topic. What benefit would there be in purchasing cloned cow milk? Why is it good for me? Why is it good for the farmer? Why can't we just let cows and bulls do what comes naturally to them?
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
I guess it comes down to natural food versus cloned. They don't clone humans as far as we know so why clone cows? I guess the thought behind is take the fattest, healthiest cow and make unlimited copies to feed the ever growing human population.

What people are up in arms about is the FDA approved this practice and there has not been any significant amount of research to prove whether it is harmful and know one knew this practice can now be used by the dairy farmers and slaughter houses.

It seems like we always find out something is bad for us 2-3 or more years after we all have been eating it; kind of like human guinea pigs.
 

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